Feeling Seen with Dr. Jody Carrington

Tanya Gill: 00:00:00

My friends, I have the extreme privilege of sharing Dr. Jody Carrington with you. Dr. Jody Carrington is a renowned psychologist sought after for her expertise, energy and approach to helping people solve their most complex, human centered challenges. Their most complex human centered challenges. Jody focuses much of her work around reconnection, the key to healthy relationships, and productive teams. I can't wait to talk about that some of that stuff right away. She is a best selling author, speaker and leader of Carrington and company, and she uses her badass humor. A little bit of cussing, and her 20 year career as a psychologist to empower everyone she connects with. And this is exactly the truth.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:00:57

Ah, Tanya. Oh, people don't care. Let's just jump into it. People don't

Tanya Gill: 00:01:03

because I need to just say that your latest book, feeling seen is needs to be on people. Like it needs to be on bookshelves, and it needs to be on bookshelves. With the trifecta of joy. Yes, I am telling you this book, the last chapter, I felt like you were I was crying. So let's get into it. So let's get into it. My love hate do it. What motivated you to decide that this was needed in the world right now?

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:01:39

Well, I think that, you know, so much of what I wrote in kids these days and teachers these days was the starting point to really sort of the the big umbrella to it. All right. And so how do we take this message because it was interesting, I started I was 10 years at the Alberta Children's Hospital and working with kids and trauma, and I spent a lot of time with police officers, and the parallels between, you know, police work and trauma and kids, you know, growing up in, you know, surviving or, you know, even contemplating multiple generations of abuse, neglect and trauma, I would speak to those groups and use the exact same slide deck. And so we started to talk about like, gosh, whether we're talking to farmers, or, you know, female entrepreneurs, or people trying to navigate kids with big through big emotions, it's, it's all the same fucking deal. And so feeling seen really was like, how do we take that thing that seems to be resonating with police officers and teachers to sort of make this like, Okay, what is this really about? What is this world need right now? Regardless of age, race, religion, socioeconomic status, gender identity, what does it need right now. And it really is about feeling seen, and so that it was during a pandemic, and HarperCollins actually, we got a meeting with them, which is really tricky as a self published author, and they were like, Hey, would you read a book for us? And I was like, fuck, let me check my schedule. Yes, yeah. And, and their request was really for a book that would be more sort of universally available to people that, you know, we could put it in airports and Costco, and you know, those kind of things. And they're like, you know, what do you think would resonate right now, and I was like, We need a roadmap on how to reconnect in this disconnected world. And they were like, you think you could do that? And I was like, listen, here's, here's the pitch. And I like, all along, all I

Tanya Gill: 00:03:27

need to do is put it into words.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:03:29

Yeah, exactly. Turns out like, it was it was it mean, the turnaround was really quick. And so it was remarkably difficult to sort of pull it together, I think in the short period of time, but I but I, like I knew it in my bones. Right? And so it was just like, how do we just get it out on paper. And then just some remarkable people like Sarah Michael Anta who is the resident, a teacher in residence at the Canadian Human Rights Museum, she was really instrumental in the in one of the, you know, the chapters on racism and trauma and, and then everything else was just so cool, like, just hockey stories, you know, like the hockey mom off the street, how we got into it, and then, you know, after losing his best friend who happened to be 93 years old, and, you know, like, just shit like that. It was so fun to put those experiences in the book.

Tanya Gill: 00:04:15

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So okay, let's go. Let's go back to the to Asher for a second and his 93 or 92.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:04:26

I can't remember how Bill was maybe. Yeah, Bill. Okay. So

Tanya Gill: 00:04:30

to the story of old bill. Okay, so, I, first of all, what I love so much about feeling seen is that the timing of it is really important. You know, on you wrote this book during the pandemic, but now that the pandemic is and I'm going to use very big air quotes over. Okay, now that the pandemic is over, or we are learning how to live in a world with a pandemic, there is a lot have space now where connection seems to seem a little more uncomfortable or a little bit harder. And, and so the thing that I appreciate so much about your book is, is that it's really not as complicated as we want to make it seem

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:05:23

natural. Yeah. And I think like, here's the interesting thing to me, right is that, despite the fact that we're neuro biologically wired for connection, like we will never ever automate relationship, the hardest thing we will do is look into the eyes of the people we love. And so it's this really interesting, fucking, I don't know what it is, like, it's this interesting irony, if you will, we need it now more than ever, however, our ability to escape from it, the exit ramps, you know, the phones and the sinking into the iPads. And you know, we live in bigger houses. And now we're really normalizing working from home makes all of this stuff that we need, so desperately, even less and less accessible. And the less we do it, the less we get practiced at the nuances of, you know, social interactions and handling hard conversations, and really reading each other's nonverbal, you know, sort of responses if we don't spend time together. And so we're really, in this crux, I think of, you know, what I think is going to take in the biggest, I don't even know if it's going to be powerful enough, but it is the mental health crisis that is gripping all of us, that is, is going to be like the biggest sort of pull back to like, what do we do about this? Because I think that we're so sad, when we watch our people, you know, disappear from us. And when we feel like we've disappeared from ourselves a little bit, like, who am I, what do I want, you know, is this life worth living for me, and I think that nothing can replicate truly being seen by another human being, when you have been seen by another, it is like, the greatest drug, it is the greatest sort of, I don't know, motivation. It's the feeling of like, just undeniably getting got, you know, it's often happens without words, it's this sense of like Huck, and I think, you know, it's, it's strung together by empathy. But the prerequisite to feeling seen is you have to be emotionally regulated. So the work actually starts with you and me doing the next best right kind of thing. If we really want to reconnect the world, this is no buddy's job other than you and me, right? Like, no senior leader is going to come up with some great shit, no policy or program is going to be the answer. It's you and me stepping into just just simply, next best, right kind of thing, waving at your neighbor, giving your kid a compliment. Looking in the mirror and being like, you know what, bitch 47 is not so bad, you know? How do we sort of get back into this space of knowing that we each hold, which bear massive responsibility, I think, to to fight the desire to just shrink from each other, and some of us will be better at it than others. And I think those of us in a position of privilege, I mean, I always talk about this, I started on third base. I mean, it's easy for me to say these things, white, straight, able bodied money, and so I better fucking use it. And that was the whole premise of, you know, feeling seen, I can't tell my kids how to be better or anti Ray, I have to show them.

Tanya Gill: 00:08:13

Right. And that's, that's the power, right? Like this is I talk about the legacy of self love. And, and I think that this is exactly what you're, you're talking about, right? Because we absolutely have to show them. And, and it starts with you and me. It starts with how we feel about ourselves. And it starts with how we interact with the world. And so if we're living in a world where we want to stay tied, you know, to our wagon to shit, and bitter and miserable, then what are we putting out to the world? And, and, and, as we, because we're all lights, right? I mean, you talk about in your book about the difference between religion and spirituality, right? And at the end of the day, we're all lights, we're all connected. We're all love and light, and we're, we're hardwired for connection. Mm hmm. So if we're hardwired for that connection, where do we inside? Where do we? Where do we go? Where do we how do we create that and you are very simply say, just start noticing, building that awareness? Right? Start paying some attention to your life around you and the relationships in your life that matter? Yeah.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:09:28

Don't you think that's becoming more and more challenging? Like, I love you know, even as you say this out loud, it's like, you know, some people I feel like, are in such a place of overwhelm that it's like, god dammit, like, what? Why can't people just do it for me? You know, why can't like why do I always have to be the one to start it right? Don't you hear women say that all the time? Particularly, you know, this is what gets me is that you know, highest rate of suicide in this in our province in our country is middle aged men. Yeah, and I answer. I think so much of this is the role of women who are exhausted, and almost resentful in some ways to have to be the emotional wherewithal for so many things in so many people. And so I feel like it is this mammoth ask. And, you know, you can't address what you don't acknowledge. And so I think we have to start in this place of like, it's going to be fucking brutal, because you're not going to feel like you want to do it. And so much of it comes into this place of like, you will end up getting more from this than it will feel as though you're giving away

Tanya Gill: 00:10:38

and making space for yourself. Like, it amazes me. It amazes me, like and I love. I mean, again, there's so many things in their book, but it amazes me how, in your in your book, you talk about breathing and being and, and having conversations with your people. Whether they are in person or in spirit. Because I your your dear is it how do you say her name Raya? Yeah, yeah, yeah, your diria you, like you stood on that balcony after that Rockstar day? And you were like, fucking did it? I did it. Yeah. Yeah. It was amazing. And, you know, like, my first husband passed away 15 years ago. And, and I have conversations with him every day too. And, and yeah, and like, I celebrate with him too, right. And so you know, that that beautiful connection that we can have it in our own lives and, and with spirit. And I want to bring that back to the fact though, that we often don't give ourselves any space for that. Like, we talked about meditation, and then people are like, oh, like, I was one of those people, by the way, who was like, I don't get too busy. I'm too busy. I like to move. I'm too busy. I don't I don't meditate. Well, like, like you said, drop your fucking shoulders. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, bring, bring your tongue off the roof of your mouth and take some breaths. Yeah, see where the hell you are?

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:12:25

Well, and I think so, so many times, like, Okay, so tell me what you think about this. Because I think that so often, there is this expectation that we need to be doing more like, so you need to take another course you need to work harder, you need to like, do this the work around self growth. And we often like when we want to date somebody or marry somebody, we're like, oh, she hasn't done the work, or he hasn't done the work. And I think that there's really this misunderstanding that so much of what we need is already done. Right? Like it is, it is not that we don't have the ability to be remarkable humans, it's that we lose access to it. And so much of the deal is how do we get back to it, not recreate it? But how do we get back to those things like intuition, and, you know, connection to the best parts of, you know, knowing how powerful we are in regulating our own communities and our own children and our own partners. And once we recognize just how powerful we are in that way. And, like I think it's like so true about you know, you send somebody a compliment, you know, a text message with a compliment today. Or you you know, just watch what happens, at some point today, before you go to sleep, you know, genuinely look at somebody whether you know them or not, and identify something about them that you know, that you love. And ideally, it's a trade not a thing, but do take, I'll take either, you know, if it's like I love your sweater is usually not as powerful as like, your kindness just radiates, when I when I step into this room, I'm so glad you're here today. Right? That single handedly can alter the trajectory of not only day, but it can like it save a life. And when I think about looking for motivation to get out of bed in the morning, I think like fuck, I don't have to do anything different. I just have to do that a little more often. And I will be better for it. And my children are watching that you can't tell your kids how to be great or you can't tell your you know, your people, your partner, you have to show them and you don't have show them all the time because you're gonna fuck it up, you're gonna get tired, like, Let's drop the bar here. And that's my whole excitement about being alive in this season, despite the fact that we're on smack in the middle of a mental health crisis and people are fucking exhausted, is that the bar has never been this low. You know, like, if you want to be successful, the good news is the bar is pretty fucking low. You just gotta be nice. And

Tanya Gill: 00:14:39

you gotta be nice to other people and you got to be nice to yourself. Right? And then and when you do that, it does it's like you said it's the switch. It's the serotonin and, like, people refer to me as like a fairy because when I go out I'm one of those people who is like, if I'm walking down the mall, I'm not a mall person, just so we're clear, I'm not. But if I'm walking down the mall and I see someone who's got like great shoes, for example, I'll be like, I love your shoes, or at the checkout, you know, if I've noticed that, that, that that cashier has really gone to extensive length to do beautiful makeup, I would say things like, I love your makeup. It's beautiful. You know, and, and those moments of feeling seen, you really never know. And you know, like, you say that that feeling seen? Can you never know if it's going to change your life. And, and I always I put it in my book too. But I say like, you never know the impact a single conversation can make. Right? Because, I mean, when I was a teacher, the kids would come to my classroom, I was teaching high school at the time, the kids would come to my classroom and hang out at lunchtime. Yeah, they hang out. Just to be they would hang out. Because they knew that they were in a safe place that they were being held. And that there was someone there for them. Yeah, yeah. And it was it was just a safe place to hang out. Yeah. Yeah. And, and we know from aces scores, right, adverse child experience scores, that it takes one caring adult, and helps if there's a hell of a lot more. Mm hmm. Yeah. But it takes one. So you never know, when you show up for another human being, what impact you're making.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:16:42

So true. So true. And I think that's just the thing is that like, you know, we often get overwhelmed by this, like, Oh, my goodness, the weight of the world is so big. And you know, like, Oh, I wish I had the time or the money to start a nonprofit, I wish like, you know, why can I do this and whatever. But the thing is, is that, like, we get overwhelmed by, you know, the constant inundation of, you know, social media ideals and news, bump bombardments of the things that, you know, are going so terribly, that it really, I think, demoralizes so many people, and it, there's a paralysis that happens in, in being able to sort of do anything, because it all feels futile, like, what's the point? Right, what, how much of a difference is truly gonna make. And I think that that is like the scariest thing, because it is really, when you notice that futility setting in it becomes really difficult to sort of, you know, want to even do the next right, best kind of thing. And so we do nothing. And then the cycle continues, right? And so, I mean, there's, there's so much around the theory of change, and motivation that really is embedded in the truth of all of this, it really is, like, just do it. Just do a little thing today, and a little thing tomorrow. And that's how we get somewhere, you know, like James Claire's atomic habits, you know, is really about like, Listen, if you set your course, you start from Toronto, or whatever the example is, and you set your course just like two millimeters to the left, you're gonna end up in a completely different place than you know, if you fly in a straight line. And it's, it's so I think about that often, right? It's like, gosh, it doesn't have to take much if you don't got a lot left in the tank. Listen, welcome. Because this if you do, oh, my God, look out and we need you. But if you're the one sort of running on fumes, like, listen, you're in good company.

Tanya Gill: 00:18:31

And it is 1% change. Like, that's why I say that's why I say motivation is bullshit. But momentum is magic, right? I love that patient is that like, hard start. It's that Monday diet, it's that, that that grind. And I think that, you know, we lose motivation very, very quickly, especially when we're already overwhelmed, exhausted, we feel like, you know, we think about 10 spoons, and then we realize we've got a back pocket full of spoons, too, because we're serving so many people. And so and so, you know, like, momentum is stepping into what's next. And, and wait, and and this this, oh, my God, wait, I gotta find the page. I should have flagged it. Because when I read it, I laughed out loud. And I was like, see, I'm not the only one. And, and, and the sub the sorry, the subtitle is balance is bullshit. Balance is bullshit. And like, God, we have a world like you say we are in a mental health crisis. We have people who are overwhelmed, who are stressed, who are feeling some people are feeling like What's the fucking point? And yeah, and and then they somehow I think I just want to create balance. And it's like, an even as I say it, like my own body reacts, like, I'm like, just setting yourself up, you're setting like,

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:20:13

we've had a lot of. Yeah, so we've, we've had a lot of conversations with the team lately. And it was like, I almost wish I would have added a word to that, because it's like, achieving balance is bullshit. Because the desire to sort of try and, you know, like, get this and give it a lot over here and a lot over here. It's like, that's the bullshit part is that, like, you know, we're always constantly striving to sort of do a little bit of not too much, but it's like the Achieving of it. And the expectation that, you know, like, I think even in the world of business, we've long talked about, like the work life balance, and you know, how you sort of have to keep a foot on both sides of those things. I think that's always true. But achieving it isn't the end game. Like you don't sort of be like, Ah, I figured out the formula. This is how I, you know, teach my children, that you can be a mom, and you can balance all the ideals of motherhood. And then also, you could just step into the boardroom after you bake cookies and dropped everybody off the fucking school, and you look good in your Spanx. And then you just like, do the things, you know, like, that's not, that's not what we're talking about. We're one generation out of the ideals that our mamas all sort of sunk into. And some of the most powerful women in my world are my my ancestors, my grandmother's, you know, who would live very traditional ways. And so we're one generation into sort of really debunking being a disrupter of the traditional roles, and it's not going to feel comfortable. And there'll be nothing about it that is balanced, because it's all achieving that has always been bullshit. But even more so now, as we rewrite rules.

Tanya Gill: 00:21:47

Well, and that's exactly it, the the rules are being rewritten for women in these generations that we're in right now. Right? I mean, the rules around our roles in our homes, our roles in our communities, our roles in business, all of those rules are getting rewritten. And we're also feeling safer to speak our truth. So,

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:22:14

some of us, some of us are, particularly as white women, but like, I think, you know, that's the thing that I always got to be reminded of all the time is that we even get the we have the ability to do podcasts, we have the ability to take, you know, seats at tables, and I think sometimes it's like, as hard as it is for somebody in a position of privilege I can't fucking Fathom and actually I can't I just don't want to but the the idea of like, just the inroads of people who have have built this before we got here, you know, like, I just think it's astounds me every single

Tanya Gill: 00:22:46

day is astounding. It is astounding. And then it's about the legacy. Right? Yeah. Yes, or opportunity moving forward. So I have to, I have to tell you, God, this is the this is the coolest part. This is what I love about having a podcast is I get to talk to and have amazing conversations with really cool people. And before you I spoke with a woman by the name of Gloria Gloria was my Uber driver when I was in Dallas last time. Okay. Now Gloria story is so unbelievable. She She originates from Ghana, when she was nine years old. She was told she was moving to the United States. She arrived at the United States and was literally dumped with a woman and her boyfriend and told this is your mother. And what? And then she ended up experiencing a lot of tremendous abuse in that, in that. Oh, my heart. And and, and you know what, though? What is so beautiful about Gloria is that she, first of all recognized that she wanted a life that was different from what she had had grown up in and saw the possibilities. She also had influential people in both our church life. And in her school life. We did a shout out to three badass teachers who helped her graduate. And and now she's a nurse. And she drives she drives car for the she drives Uber for extra money. And she's pregnant with a baby girl. And so

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:24:34

that's how you met you met her. Oh my god.

Tanya Gill: 00:24:36

I know. But this is the thing. Okay. But this is what we're talking about God like when we show up with the acronym I use is help. Honor the love and presence that when we show up that way, people feel seen and and that's what your book is. is and I'm like, sister like, oh my god, like you are far more articulate. And obviously you are like the PhD queen and you are Dr. Jody Carrington. And I, I'm like, yes. Just simply, yes. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:25:21

Well, and I think it's that experience, you know, with that, you know, beautiful woman. And, you know, I have to talk about Jesse Wyso, who, you know, was so pivotal in my understanding, so he wrote from the ashes. He's an indigenous man that was raised in a system in Saskatchewan and Ontario. And he's now just finishing his PhD at York, and he was homeless, and in prison, and, you know, had been through all of the things. And he, you know, so many of the stories that resonate with me are just simple ones, where, you know, he was like, you know, I'm sitting on the corner for days, you know, hoping that somebody would just sort of give him money, or, you know, acknowledge him and somebody knelt down and asked him his name. And he remembers, you know, being able to just say his name out loud, and hearing his name spoken by another human being, you know, any hadn't for months, even been addressed as a person. And having somebody do that, for him just really sort of was the impetus to be like, Hmm, there is somebody in here. And, you know, I need to honor that and be better and do better. And, you know, and then, you know, talking about all the people he met along the way, including his now, remarkable wife, Lucy, who, you know, together, you know, they she picked them up from jail, and they away they went, and they have a little girl and like, it's, it's amazing. So it's like, sometimes it's like, it's not those like massive interventions, you know, like, yes, he went through the treatment program and all that, but it was like, the guy who knelt down and there and do we not all have the opportunity to do that on any given day, you know, to you know, have strike up a conversation with Uber driver to, you know, stop and kneel down and, you know, to have a conversation about even if you don't have money to give to somebody else, but even in that conversation of like, Tell me more, right? Asking people their name, like acknowledging somebody in the in the elevator, you know, like, it's just, it's such a fun game. And I just really

Tanya Gill: 00:27:17

love it. I love the elevator, awkward. I make it a game I did. Alright, so here's where the party is. I'm like, who, you know, like, who brought the party favors? And like, what do we drink in? And how many floors? Do we get to dance? I'm that person. Ah, that's awesome. But like, seriously, God, like, elevator, awkward. Come on, we're in a box together. And let's acknowledge one another, let's acknowledge that we're human beings in a box together.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:27:48

And, you know, like, it's so it's so great, you know, anon has has talked about this in his research where, you know, the the only intention was in his whole platform was to get people to look at each other. For four minutes. It's, and it's remarkable to me how difficult that is, you know, and even when I was like, first reading the research, I was like, how hard can this be like, I have been married to my personal husband for 15 years, like, I should be able to come home and like, look at him, and like, how hard can you know, and he's got a PhD in, in feeding cows, which basically, it's, he's a feedlot nutritionist, which I'm sure it's very hard, but he basically just drives around and looks to see if heifers are hungry. Okay. And so I was like, you know, this can be very hard. And I was like, Hey, can you I was reading this research, can you just sit and look at me for four minutes? And he was like,

Tanya Gill: 00:28:35

Why did you get a new 1am? I

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:28:40

use me, we mean, why I had a lot of choices in 1993. And I chose you, that's why you're gonna sit here, look at me. And I think, you know, it's so interesting that you've been replicating the research in that first 30 seconds with somebody you really love, even if you know them really well. It's awkward and silly. And you know, you're you just want to make sure that the synchronicity is going to be there that they're going to, you know, be vulnerable if you're going to be vulnerable. And if they're not going to be vulnerable, you're not going to be vulnerable. And we get in this sort of standoff. And you know, one of my favorite psychologist from the planet, Harriet Lerner wrote how it is all about a dance with big emotion. She wrote the dance of anger, the dance of intimacy. And I really have always loved that concept because it is so hard to get it right with another human being, you know, you can stop one day and sort of ask somebody who you think needs connection, what their name is, and they're like, fuck off lady, you know, or you're dancing in an elevator and they're like, Okay, lunatic. So it is also premised on this idea, or prefaced on this idea that there's going to be some responsiveness there. And when there isn't, what do we do with that? Because it can really then mitigate that from ever happening. And this often happens in marriages, right? Where I'm going to try to seek your connection, and it's not going to be the time or the place or you're not going to be open to it. So you know what, fuck it. I'm never going to do it again. If we get in this dance of then, okay, the walls are up, and who's brave enough to break down the walls? And often we just disconnect and then look for it somewhere else.

Tanya Gill: 00:30:09

Yeah. Yeah. Right. That and that's the thing. It's, it's being willing to step back into the dance or so scary, right? Yeah. Well, and we are like, I mean, because we're wired for for connection. If we don't feel good about ourselves, and we experienced what I'm going to use, I'm going to use the word rejection, experience that rejection. Yeah, like it can further fuel are fear of future connection, particularly if

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:30:42

there's a trauma history on board? Well, in your bones, you know, you that's your expectation of how people will respond to you is that they're not that the world isn't a safe place that humans aren't, they can't be trusted, right, that you've protected so hard. I mean, the beginning of feeling seen, I talk about the soul. And for a long time, I've talked about emotional regulation, and kids and people. But I was like, What the fuck are we trying to get back to you like, of course, emotional regulation is a thing. And that's a really good thing. But like, is it true, and in many Eastern philosophical practices, there's a lot of talk about, like this sense of self deceit of self like all of the core beings, and I core parts to our beings. And I really think that that is what we try to do. And when you truly see another, that's the part you see is the soul. But you can imagine how hard it is to get through all the armor. If somebody has buried the husband, if somebody has been told repeatedly that they're not worth it, if somebody has, like, been physically assaulted because of the color of their skin, fuck you. Even when you say to me, it's safe to come out. Or you can trust me, or you can fall in love with me again, not a fucking chance, right? Because the armor is so thick, you have to work so much harder in this human relationship and connection game to be able to get back there again and again, again, and I love that challenge. Most of the time. I'm like, Okay, you need me to prove to you. Have you met, like, and this is what I loved about the Children's Hospital, right? Is that like, there'll be hitters and kickers and fighters in the wizard tell you to fuck off. And, you know, I got throw punch so many times I lost count. And I loved it because I understood the context, right? Context is a prerequisite for empathy, when I know that their job is to push me away and up and fnf because they didn't believe that somebody would stick with them long enough. Ciao, challenge accepted. Right? And it doesn't mean that we don't tolerate bullshit. Like it doesn't it doesn't mean that sometimes it'll be like enough. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Right? Doesn't mean that everything goes. But it means that you lead with kindness and that again, and again, and again. And again. And it's exhausting, which is why we need our people to be able to sort of get us back in the game when we fall apart. But it really is the deal to step back and again and again and again. And you know

Tanya Gill: 00:32:53

what, as you're talking about stepping in again, and again and again, and you're talking about your hospital experiences. I I remember one night I was doing call, I had to remove a teenage girl from a situation and she needed to be formed and she needed to be hospitalized. And she was angry as all fuck. And, and, and I kept like, you know, I was there. I was like, I was letting her hold her anger. And I you know, I was, I mean, the lid completely flipped, right? completely flipped. And you know, it's so funny, right? You talk about the snacks. I was always the one with the I have a granola bar in my purse. Are you hungry? Right, like I should you know, should we should we hit the drive thru on the way to the hospital? Like, I'm not I was that person anyway. No. But what was so interesting, though, is that she was because and I believe this because I didn't. I wouldn't walk away from her when she was pushing so fucking hard. When we were when, when her and my time working together, were coming to an end. She said to me, you know, you're not just a cunt. You're a thunder Cunt. And I was like, what do you do that? Right? Like what to do with that? And say thank you. And that was exactly it. She got I love that. The biggest compliment. She was like, you stay by me like a superhero. You are a thunder Cunt and like, and then one of my colleagues do me a little Thundercunt superhero. It was hilarious. God you need a t shirt for sure. Right? It but like, but it's so it that's that those are the examples though. Right like you show up? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And especially with our kiddos, you just keep showing up again. Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. That is so awesome. I have no Never said those words on my podcast before.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:34:59

Never heard that word on a podcast before but like I'm here for it.

Tanya Gill: 00:35:12

And that's why I love you. You're here for it. Right? Oh, gosh, that is so great. That was so great. So you know how you talk about that four minutes of, of gazing? And, and how when you and your husband Aaron, were doing that it was like, an experience quite an experience, right. Last night, I actually said to my husband, like, you know, Are you up for this? Do you want to do this? And he's like, of course, like, he's, he's up for anything. He's up for anything. He's, he's, personally he's a university Prophet in health sciences and, and he focuses on men's mental health and Transgender Health and, Oh, amazing. The Grint health, which is like, also important, so beautiful, sacred. Anyway, so he's like, yeah, totally up for it. And then guess who fell asleep? Ah,

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:36:13

wow, it was soothing.

Tanya Gill: 00:36:15

No, I fell asleep before we did it. I know. I was like, Okay, well, let's just do it. Like right before we go to bed, bla bla bla, bla, bla. And then, well, I, you know, here's the thing I here's, I want to blame you. I'm gonna blame you. Because I was so nervous about I was so but it was like that excited nervous like that. You know, like, yeah, like the Elizabeth Gilbert thing. Like, it's that excited, nervous. And so. And so, this morning, he said to me, he's like, Yeah, we never did that four minute thing you wanted to do? And I'm like, we'll do it tonight. I promise.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:37:00

Ah. Oh, my God, I love it. Okay, well, I need to know how it goes.

Tanya Gill: 00:37:06

Okay, okay. I will, I will let you know. I'll be like, Oh, my God, it was awkward as hell, although funny. Oh, my gosh, I think it will be really lovely. Okay, so I actually wanted to comment on a couple of things that you've done in your book that I think are really, really important for your readers. At the end of each chapter, you ask three questions. And the questions, what I appreciate about the questions is that they push you to an awareness that you may not have considered before. Hmm. And they also encourage you to stretch yourself a little bit. And, and, and so I was wondering, like, what made you decide, first of all to put these questions in? Yeah, that's such a good question.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:38:06

I mean, I think that so much of the time, like, even when, in kids these days and days, we did this as well. And I was thinking about this, like, Is this necessary when we're not talking specifically to teachers, or, you know, educators? And it was like, the real conversation with our editor was like, totally around? How do we make sure that some of these these ideas stick? How do we, you know, provide a sense of like, how can you dig just a little bit deeper? How can you sort of get into this place of like, okay, just a second, did this really resonate? What did this really mean to eat? And so we, as a team sort of came up with I was like, Okay, what, out of this chapter? What do you think really needs to be sort of hammered home? And then, you know, we will come up with some things and like, some of them are better than others, right? You know, I admittedly, but I, you know, and sometimes people just, sometimes I do this, I just, like, skip over that and want to get to the next chapter, kind of, right. But I love it when people do use this book, as you know, for a book club. And that's what I love the most about sometimes, like, even if you didn't read the chapter, you know, fully or it didn't resonate, or you were, like, fell asleep through it, or whatever the deal is, those are some of the things that can just sort of ground you back into content, then, you know, just sort of highlights the things that i i hope that you take from each of them. So i i For that reason, I just like it's kind of a bit of a roadmap as you navigate it.

Tanya Gill: 00:39:25

Yeah. And it's a great roadmap. It's a really great roadmap. Yeah, cool. I think it's a it's an especially important roadmap when we look at privilege, right? You know, so I also consider myself to be very privileged woman, I am white heterosexual. I am and and I live on Blackfoot land. Right. I live on in an indigenous territory. And I knowledge that I I acknowledge that there are so many layers of privilege that come with wherever we are in our lives. But sometimes we don't even take a moment to consider the privilege that we have.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:40:11

Well, that's the definition of privilege. You don't have to. Right. Yeah, it's a conscious effort. And I and I think that it hasn't been for so long. And, you know, like, I haven't talked about the fact that I am. You know, despite the fact that I grew up on this. I don't know. I mean, I got a PhD in this country, and never, not one time learned about the residential school system. I never not one time, you know, talked a lot about, you know, why did the people we serve in telecom services, why is, you know, in this in this province, why, you know, 10% of the kids in this province are indigenous, but they make up 72% of kids in care. I never question those things, you know, even when I served in this population, you know, sort of the population and I'm like, What the hell? And you don't have to ask those questions, right? If you always just been the one with the answers or taught, you're the one with the answers. And that was such a big part about feeling seen for me is like, yeah, so it's easy to sort of be in this place of knowing what feeling scene feels like, when you've been privileged enough to have that experience, because it really is a privileged experience to feel seen. And I that was the hardest chapter, you know, there's a chapter tucked right in the middle, that was the hardest one to write. And I, it's the one that I get, that I'm excited, I shouldn't say, to get the most feedback on because I know I fucked it up. I know, I have so much I'm learning to do. And it's just how we attract people who can teach us more is is just, I think, one of the most important parts of this whole process.

Tanya Gill: 00:41:39

And I think we have to realize that the people who can teach us more are everywhere. Mm hmm. It's not it. And yes, I mean, I've had the privilege of sitting with elders and listening to their stories. And I mean, many of us are very familiar with the blanket exercise and who, what an emotional journey the blanket exercise can be to understand the impact that is colonization. Yeah, that is colonization. That is, you know, racialization, which is, of course, a made up word, and also genocide. Let's like, like, like, let's be real, let's just use the word that's real. And that is it's genocide. Right. So yeah, you know, so we have an opportunity every single day to see others like, I mean, I live in Lethbridge, we are next to the largest indigenous reserve in Canada, we, we have a large indigenous population. And a lot of those folks come with massive amounts of trauma, with massive amounts of history, both genetically and in this life, right, because we know that there's like intergenerational trauma is a very real thing. And so, you know, like that moment of just choosing to see and learn from who whomever we can.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:43:16

Yep. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. He's the key and doing that work. And checking, doing that work and checking, doing that work and checking. It's just like, yeah, it's a never ending is a never ending process. And I, you know, every day, I just think about how lucky I am in this lifetime. But certainly, in this last season, and, you know, even the conversations that I have with our children, that is so different than in one generation that we, you know, we would have never dreamed about having around our kitchen table. Right. And I'm, I'm, it makes me hopeful some days, like, I mean, I know that the, we're so far behind in so many ways, and the fact that it's happening more and more also gives me hope.

Tanya Gill: 00:43:54

You know, every conversation counts. Every time we speak up counts. Yeah, and every conversation counts. And what I find inspiring about the generations that are coming and what I see in my children, and in their friends and in, like, you know, younger 20 Somethings people's is that they don't feel like they, they, they are being more authentically themselves than ever. I mean, you know, it's, it's not uncommon to have kids that go by them, or to be transgender, or to, you know, identify as pansexual or, you know, there there's also this space for acceptance and love for so much diversity. And that is like, to me that's so important to Yeah, yeah. 100% Peace of being seen. Yeah. Right. Yes. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Okay, this book like, seriously? Seriously, you talk through the whole book that that really when it comes right down to it. Our whole job is to walk one another home. We're just here to walk each other home. Yeah, do to get Ram Dass quote, I

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:45:18

haven't hanging over my shoulder because I, we I forget it all the time. But that really is the big why in the world for me, right? Is really like that's, that's our job. And on our on our worst days, we're not our worst days. But on many days, we're the walkers. And on other days were the walkies. And sometimes you're doing both of the exact same time. I love that. Yeah. And I just think that it is it is the reason right? When I get overwhelmed. And I think like, oh, my gosh, this is too much. I'm exhausted. I'm on the road. You know, we've just lost my mother in law, all these things. It's like, what? How are we going to do it? And then I start to think, are you fucking kidding me right now? Like, what is?

Tanya Gill: 00:45:56

How privilege? Where's the,

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:45:58

the gratitude? Where are we at in this point? To understand that we're just we're all we're not nobody's getting out of your life. We're all going to be in this place of, you know, having those moments where things fall together, and then they don't. And, you know, how do we how do we embrace those moments becomes I think the thing, and if you are lucky enough to be in a place on any given day where you can sort of seek the joy? And I think that that's, you know, with respect to your book, I mean, that's the whole point, right? Is it like, even in the front row funeral, there are those moments that you can string together. And happiness is so elusive, because it's not a thing that anybody ever has. But we have the opportunity to find the moments of joy in any given day and string them together. And that's really why we're here not to be happy. Right? But to find those moments of joy.

Tanya Gill: 00:46:48

Right. And it, it requires presence, it requires presence. Yeah, yeah. Because remember,

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:46:54

the most vulnerable emotion on the planet is joy. And you can't be emotionally dysregulated. And feel joy. It's neuro biologically impossible.

Tanya Gill: 00:47:02

So emotional regulation brings joy. It's the key. It's the key. It's the key to stay in badass. There's one last thing I want to read to our readers, because I just think it's a is so powerful. And it's it's really interesting, too. And you say the problem with most of us is that we want to get there yesterday. And patients I fucking hate that word to is. And but But reality is, is that what we have is right here right now. And, you know, we talked about it earlier, it's like those one single steps every single day that make the difference. Because we aren't getting we aren't getting out of here alive. And you know, Gloria, the young lady that I interviewed before you, you know, her, her her inspiration, she said this, it's so cool, because she's like, every single day I wake up, I know, if I wake up, I still have a purpose on this planet. Cool. If I'm waking up, I have a purpose. And that means one step forward. That's awesome. Right? Yeah. And that one step forward or walking each other home? Yeah. Love it. Love it. I love you. I love you. Okay, thank you so much for having me.

Tanya Gill: 00:48:32

Oh, you know what, Jody, like this has just been like, so awesome. So awesome. So here's the thing, though, young lady. And I get to say that because I'm 48 So here's the thing, young lady, um, you have been doing a book tour, and then it looks like you're taking a little break. And then you're finishing up in Calgary, and it's sold out.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:48:59

Yeah, we had to New York next week. That's our only us stop. And then we're Winnipeg and Calgary is where we end and yeah, we sold out every step. It was amazing. It's been amazing. St. John's was phenomenal. Toronto was so intense. Halifax was massive. And it was it was just like yeah, it's been it's been it's Vancouver was ridiculously fun. It was it was so good.

Tanya Gill: 00:49:24

So are you thinking about opening up a second one in Calgary? Because

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:49:29

we've talked about it and it's just like, I don't know, but you think we should have a

Tanya Gill: 00:49:36

because I was posting because I've been so excited. And I've been so nervous. And I mean, I got flowers from some some of the women who are in one of my groups because because they know how like how excited and nervous and all of the things I was. And we had talked actually, months ago, a couple months ago and you were already sold out. And I was like, Oh my gosh. So anyway, so I thought, You know what I was, like, I'll ask her if she's, if she's going to do another one. If she's, if she's going to do and I get it, you've got to also have boundaries, because you talk about boundaries in the book, too. You've got to know your limits, man,

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:50:18

I think like, that's, that's part of it for me is that, like, the, the speaking piece has become so fantastic. It's the thing I love to do the most. And it's like, you know, how do we how do we make sure that we, you know, do that, but then still have something at the end of the day, right. And the tour stops are, are so fulfilling, but I want people to come to feel seen, so everybody gets a book, I will stay to the last person leaves, we do, you know, make sure you know, I sign and we do photos, and all those kind of things. So that the tour itself is been you know, the most that I've ever sunk into anything, I'm because I'm like, if people are gonna actually kind of spend money to buy the ship that I write that, I mean, I'll give you everything I got. So it's been it's been exhausting in ways that I've never felt before, but also rewarding in

Tanya Gill: 00:51:05

unbelievable ways. What has been the greatest reward?

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:51:08

I think when I see my kids, you know, just sort of ask the questions about like, what was that? Like? Who did you get to meet? What did you get to do? Do we get to come to Calgary? They're very Jack because they get to be a part of the Calgary show. And so they're like, what, what, you know, like, What happened this time. And that's just the best part and, and I travel everywhere with Marty, who is my executive director, and she, you know, we started this whole company together. And she's so great. And she's, you know, so we get to do all of this. Usually, together. We were apart for three days in this last leg of the tour to St. John's because her plane got messed up anyways. And I was like, this, I am not this. This is a partner in crime situation here. I am not doing the shit alone. So I'm very grateful that we get to do this whole process together.

Tanya Gill: 00:51:58

That's awesome. It's good to have. Good to have your Marty. I have my cats. So I understand. Ah, awesome. Yeah. Absolutely. I look at your, I'm going to use the word empire. I look at your success. I admire your strength, your resilience, your vulnerability. And the incredible heart with which you speak because, you know, like, it's real fucking world. Yeah. And that's what matters the most is its real world. So, so boundaries, it sounds like you're not going to be probably having another one in Calgary anytime soon. But that is okay. Because in the meantime, people can read the book. Oh, I

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:52:46

would bet share it. Read it. Send us your people.

Tanya Gill: 00:52:49

Yes, yes. And, and leave reviews. That's the other thing. leave reviews, make sure you leave. Please leave reviews. So, Jodi, if people want to find you, where is the one place you would like them to find you. I think everything

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:53:06

that we do is all landing on our website. So there's courses and workshops and you know, the podcast, I hope we do a podcast soon. And you know, all of those things, I always wanted to make everything that we do accessible. And so we do a workshop series once a month. The next one is on, you know, raising strong girls and the one after that is on navigating divorce. And I just wanted to make sort of mental health Reese's resources much more accessible. And we show up on social media every day. So Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn and other things. Yeah. And all the things

Tanya Gill: 00:53:36

Dr. Jodi Karen, thanks. All the things and it's Dr. Jody carrington.com. For is it. You got it. Dr. Jody carrington.com. Okay, good. See, I even just had it memorized. There you go. This has been the most amazing conversation.

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:53:50

Well, thank you for having me. I was I saw your posts the other day yesterday about getting flowers and I was like, holy Sweet Jesus. I'm gonna have to bring it today. God damn at the bar so high. But it was so fun. So thank you. Thank you so much. I just I loved every second and I can't wait to be back in the same room Lethbridge.

Tanya Gill: 00:54:09

Oh, my God. I know when he come in. When are you come on?

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:54:13

I do not know what I'm doing tomorrow. Okay. I just know we fly out again on Thursday. And so I'm just tonight, I got to play hockey against my son's team. So a bunch of 13 year old boys and me is not going to be something I don't know. I'm gonna go home stretch stretching now.

Tanya Gill: 00:54:30

It's all going to be fantastic. It's going to be fine to skip skip so that it can be a good time. My friends. Thank you so much for joining us with this amazing conversation with Dr. Jody Carrington. Who is, as you have seen, the most authentically beautiful and heartfelt, inspire, and so committed to reconnection in a world that feels hurt, and hopeless sometimes But more than anything, she has this message around feeling seen and around connecting and the power of that connection. So go get her book and read it and fill it with ink like I did. And I've only got two people who want to borrow it. And I'm like, as long as the back because it's beautiful. And, and yeah. And then get your ass to her website and get on her mailing list and keep following her because she's gem and I am so grateful to have shared space with you, God. Thank you. So

Dr. Jody Carrington: 00:55:32

thank you, Miss Tanya. Thank you. Thank you.